Debra Dickerson Has a Butt Problem

So white women diet to please men and black women gain weight to please men? And we're supposed to love our bodies because men love a women who loves herself? And we're not supposed to pick at our food because men don't like picky women? And we're not supposed to eat too much because men don't like fatties?

And how exactly can anyone have a healthy view of their bodies and have a normal relationship with food, let alone with men?

And ANYONE is surprised at the raging number of women who have eating disorders, at either end of the spectrum?

I'm going to agree with GirlyGirl for 500 Alex.

Having she ever heard of genetics. The women she's going on about has a big genetically passed on butt, you couldn't eat yourself to that figure if you tried! Exactly how would you stuff your face and plan only a certain part of your body (in this case your butt) grow and the rest of you stay slim?

At any rate this woman always seems to be displaying some serious African American hate, even though she herself is African American. She wants all black folk to get it together and be more like white folks and accept the fact that we are all cows, now start running laps and eating carrot sticks dipped in hummus. I'm stick of the sterotype that black men love fat women. I hear black men insult black women for being fat all the time. Most men don't want a fat woman and that includes black guys.

I'm also tired of people pretending to care about fat people and their health when all they care about is how we look. I don't believe for one moment Debra Dickerson gives a rat's butt about my health. If she did she'd be writing about national health care and how poor blacks might being dying of all those heart problems because the only time they find out they have a heart problem is after they dropped to the floor with a heart attack because they haven't been to the doctor in 20 years because they don't have health care!

What's worse is the amount of gyms and diet centers opening up in my area. Black women are slowly being brainwashed into thinking they are fat and unhealthy. I'm sure eating disorders will be up and so will self hate. Debra Dickerson should be proud she's doing her part.

Trollbait is right! Only Dickerson is the troll. I won't even read this article, as I've read others by her in the past on other subjects and don't need the aggravation. Salon keeps her around because she gets them page hits by baiting people (among her former insights: Obama isn't Black Enough, and OJ Simpson is typical of the "remnants" single women in their 40s can expect to date). She won't get another one from me.

... Wow, sizist AND racist.

I agree completely with the commenters before me. My sentiments exactly.

You can't choose to gain weight in certain areas. I quick google search reveals that butt supplements are a fictional construct anyway. Butt supplements. *gigglefit* Maybe I'm twelve, but the idea of it just cracks me up.

Girlygirl has made a really important point - female beauty has, in mainstream culture, always been defined by what men want to see. It's another way in which our society gives men the power to control women. And then you throw race into the mix? Debra Dickerson is advocating that black women work to conform to the white, heteronormative ideal of beauty and it really kills me. White, heteronormative women can't even achieve it! It's completely ridiculous.

I also love the seeming insistence that the doctor is always right - because doctors never have their own biases or agendas and they are never misinformed. Given that the data does not suggest a direct connection between weight and health, I'm going to side with the women who have healthy body images no matter what their doctor tells them.

Couldn't agree more with all of the above. And Girly Girl, I just looked at your profile, because I was like, "Who is this smart woman? I must find out!" Didn't realize that was you, duh.

Gods, I hope that African American women don't get rid of their butts because then I'd be back to being a freak. See I grew up in MN which is a pretty "white" state. Butts like mine are not appreciated (or tailored for). When I moved to DC for the first time and found stores that actually made clothes that fit my body shape I almost cried with joy.

But it does seem that perhaps there is a bit of internalized racism going along with the fat hatred.

Here's my experience as a black fat woman: back in '03, I went to a doctor who did nothing but harp on my weight. He wanted to put me on meds right the bat for so-called "borderline" diabetes. To hear him talk, I was going to keel over the moment I left the office. Well, of course, I went home in tears, threw out all the"bad" food and decided that rather than go the meds route, I'd lose the weight and exercise. I told myself, ok I'll give it six months and then see. Well, I went back, this time to my regular doctor. Sure, my cholesterol was lower (by 40 pts), my blood sugar stable enough to no longer be labeled diabetic, borderline or otherwise, even my blood pressure was normal....but guess what? I was STILL fat! I had only lost 5 lbs. Amazing, huh? I told my doc what the other doc had said. His response. "Humph. Some doctors just have OPINIONS!" lol... so that told me that the other doctor was just a fat-phobic jerk trying to scare me thin. Here I am 4 years later. I've since gained back that 5 lbs but I am still bicycling 3.5 miles a day to and from the job and still trying to eat healther...and my health has IMPROVED from back in 03. It's NOT the size that makes one healthy or unhealthy. It's how one treats the body. Check this out: one of my co-workers who is in her early 20s and looks like a supermodel (a size 4 easily) has a heart condition, high cholesterol AND type 2 diabetes. So much for that thin always being healthy, eh?

"What's worse is the amount of gyms and diet centers opening up in my area. Black women are slowly being brainwashed into thinking they are fat and unhealthy."

I can't imagine there being a problem with more gyms opening in an area!
And I read just yesterday that certain groups of African Americans actually have lower life expectancies than people in Third World countries. I know this is based on a number of factors such as access to health care etc, but I also think that the traditional African American diet and lifestyle is *not* healthy, no matter what the reasons behind this may be.

Making people feel bad about themselves isn't the answer, but there has to be some other way to get black people to eat better. I know this is not an easy problem to fix with lack of access to healthier foods, but I'm surprised that no one else here is acknowledging that the problem is as bad as it is. It can't be *solely* genetic; after all diabetes and HBP and other things can be managed with lifestyle changes, but I've heard the attitude "I can eat whatever I want whenever I want" coming so often especially from black people, and I think there's a serious lack of education regarding nutrition and eating healthfully that is obviously just not being spread.

I think the "problem" with gyms has more to do with perception. People are told that the only way to exercise to be healthy is by spending many hours in the gym - costly in both time and money. In reality, briskly walking for 10 minutes a day is enough to bring about measurable improvements in health. No one makes any money off of that (expect maybe the shoe stores), and it's unlikely to lead to noticeable weight loss. Nothing wrong with going to the gym, but there is something wrong with how they are being marketed.

"What's worse is the amount of gyms and diet centers opening up in my area. Black women are slowly being brainwashed into thinking they are fat and unhealthy."

I can't imagine there being a problem with more gyms opening in an area!
-The problem with the gyms combined with diet centers is the perpetuation on thiness being the only goal we should strive.
I'm sure it's much more healthier to be concerned with how a big a person's stomach is, than how fast they can run a mile.
Did you read the rest of her comment? You know the link between the two things are weaker than society may claim to be so.

And I read just yesterday that certain groups of African Americans actually have lower life expectancies than people in Third World countries. I know this is based on a number of factors such as access to health care etc, but I also think that the traditional African American diet and lifestyle is *not* healthy, no matter what the reasons behind this may be.
-I'm afraid that is bit of a generalization. While it is based on the matter at hand, the average american diet period isn't as healthy as it could be.
Studies state that the average adult eats unhealthy a 1/4 of time, but 70% of adults aren't as active as they should. That goes beyond race as well. If you want to use groups to add to your point, it's more accurate to say that a large number of people that are in poverty in America aren't eating as healthy as they could, which may have some linkage to race. My diet is somewhat decent, but I make up for it by being very active. It is something that is advocated in my multi-racial home. It has been that way since I was younger.

Making people feel bad about themselves isn't the answer, but there has to be some other way to get black people to eat better. I know this is not an easy problem to fix with lack of access to healthier foods, but I'm surprised that no one else here is acknowledging that the problem is as bad as it is. It can't be *solely* genetic; after all diabetes and HBP and other things can be managed with lifestyle changes, but I've heard the attitude "I can eat whatever I want whenever I want" coming so often especially from black people, and I think there's a serious lack of education regarding nutrition and eating healthfully that is obviously just not being spread.
-We should all be striving to eat healthier and be active.
-I'm sure everyone that has replied realizes that it's both a genetic and lifestyle thing. Whether or not you think so is a matter of opinion. It's obvious that African Americans tend to have larger bottoms and legs, but that has nothing to do with lifestyle. I'm 5'11", and 154 pounds. Genetics gave me: A large bottom and legs. It's been the same way since I was younger, shorter and less mature.
-Everyone needs to be educated about having a healthier lifestyle involving a well-balanced diet and exercise. The message may need to be spread more, but it should be spread to everyone without the use of the weight scare tactic currently being stressed. One of my friends calls it "OMG OBESITY EPIDEMIC LOLZZZZZ!!!"

By the way: I don't think you're racist and that wasn't my intentions in doing this. Debra Dickinson, however: RACIST!! She can kiss my Puerto-Rican, Black, Indian ass.

Just for disclosure, I feel the need to say I'm a hispanic woman (Mexican/German) with an "apple" figure. My Mom has slim hips, and I have slim hips (you think it's genetic ?) So I have no opinions about whether a big butt is better/worse/whatever... Some of us have them, and some don't. I know MANY people who are Black -- in all shapes and sizes.

African Americans tend to have larger hips, thighs and butts (both men and women). It's genetic. Of the many actually "good" studies done on weight, it seems that it is somewhat protective to have your fat stored there rather than where I have it. So... It may be BETTER to have a big butt.

Moving right along, we DO know that Black people have higher rates of many types of diseases related to circulation (such as strokes) and blood sugar (diabetes). Interestingly, stress causes and aggravates these conditions. NO ONE EVER speaks of the stresses of just BEING Black within this context. Those who do (in my experience) get called "whiners". I won't insult this group's intelligence by claiming that I "know" what Black people experience. I can't -- I'm not Black. What I CAN do though, is recite what probably WON'T happen to me because I am not Black (in fact, I appear to be very white -- folks don't generally assume I'm Hispanic). Here goes:

* Store keepers will buzz me into a jewelry store sometimes before I even ring a bell. They won't ignore me if I DO ring (unless it's closing time). They won't think I'm there to steal anything.
* The store detective in a department store won't follow me around
* I won't get profiled and stopped for "driving while black"
* Employers won't assume that I got my MBA from a prestigious school as a result of affirmative action
* Although I need to be better than my male colleagues at my job because I am female, I am not required to be better than everybody just to get promoted to the next level.
* I won't be stopped by the cops because I got lost and I'm looking for an address in a rich neighborhood
* If I were to live in a rich neighborhood, no one will assume that I'm the maid if I enter my own home.
* Newcomers to the US from certain countries will not automatically assume I'm a criminal
* If I dress flashily, those who see me will not assume I'm a welfare queen. They may see me as terminally tacky, but not as a welfare queen.

I personally know of at least one case of each of the above. These are not "conventional wisdom" or "urban legends". I'm sure that the members of this community who are Black will be able to fill in many more things on this list of what won't happen to me.

So... I wonder... How stressful could it be if such things happened to me on a daily basis? It begs the question... What part does stress play in the health profile of Black people? Now THAT would be an interesting study -- and THAT's why it won't be done. The implication would be that societal change (and deep personal change for each and every person in the society) would be needed - because the implication is damning. That is extremely difficult. Putting up a gym and calling Jordin fat, and Buffie a bad role model is extremely easy.

--Andy Jo--

Debbie dear has a thinking problem, as do many of the trolls posting comments on the Salon site. It really sticks in my craw when people pompously declare that fat people should be charged more for health insurance. Insurance ain't a tax, folks. It's something those who are insured PAY FOR.

And, why should I have to pay more for health insurance than my thin co-worker, based purely on our weight? A high weight does not necessarily equate to poorer health. A lower weight does not necessarily equate to better health. How badly I wanted to tell these people that I work out regularly, in general try to eat a balanced diet, limit my soda intake, etc., yet remain fat. (Nor do I drive too fast, drink, do drugs, smoke, have unprotected sex, go skydiving, or attempt to throw hornets' nests into swimming pools, all of which are health risk factors, and few of which will actually result in a higher premium).

The problem with doing that, of course, is that these folks are not particularly reasonable or intelligent; there's no way they will ever see that for most, being fat is NOT a "choice"...and mostly, because I don't owe them or anyone else an excuse. They are the ones with the problem. And Debbie baby has given them yet one more forum in which to spew their bilious stupidity. Grrr.

(My favorite comment was a person who thought of himself as enlightened, who said, in effect: "well, no one should be discriminated against, but this wouldn't happen if people would conform." That's a paraphrase, b ut it's what he meant. I paraphrased it to make clear the proposition is absurd on its face.)

Kunoichi, that was my point. And once you are in a gym the brainwashing begins. There are hundreds of ways to exercise without a gym.

Bayareagal
I don't even have a problem with gyms if the people who owned them wasn't always promoting weight loss. It's hard to go to a place like that everyday without getting "the message". If one chooses to exercise they can walk (free) lift free weights ($10) Use a workout video (free at the library). Where I live we need a health care clinic, more jobs, and more day care centers. The last thing we need is constant reminders that we don't fit what's considered beautiful. Oh, everywhere a new gym goes up where I live a diet/weight loss center goes up right next to it. It's cool to see the older ladies with their sticks (to swat a stray dog ) walking more around here just to stay active.

My last comment

AndyJo
Maybe African America's have a higher risk of this or that is the fact that many poor African American's don't have health insurance, some are fearful of doctors because of pass experiments done on us, poorer diet because of the expense of quality fruits and vegetables, and lack of access to health care. Some African American's from poor areas wait a long time before going to the Doctor for things and sometime never go until it's too late. They show up in the emergency room and by that time they are closer to death. Plus there aren't as many studies for medication and treatments for African Americans. I take that African American's have a higher risk of this and that with a grain of salt.

You would think white people never got diabetes, breast cancer, or died of anything. It's in line with the common statements that fat=unhealthy. If all things were equal I bet the differences in "blacks at higher risk for...." would be about equal imho.

Just interesting to me...
Why is it that people think African Americans eat so differently than other Americans. We've been in this country a long, long time. lol We eat *what you do* you eat mac & cheese, we don't have any diet except the SAD. That's it. We shop and eat the same foods other Americans eat. Unless last night's roasted chicken with mashed potatoes, and spinach salad with a roll is African American thing. Yeah, we eat fried things and nice southern desserts sometimes and mostly for special occasions, but we have ramen noodle soups in our cabinets, diet pepsi in the fridge and Hamburger helper on the menu. I wonder why white America thinks we eat so different?

pckim,

Wanted to back you up on your claim that African Americans don't eat a diet somehow radically different from white Americans. My mom's family lineage is white working class Southern, and their diet was no different from what people assume is an African American diet, a cuisine that gets labeled in restaurants up here sometimes as 'Soul Food.' I get so frustrated to see how easy it is for people to make so many monolithic claims about African Americans and health or body image or nutrition that I'm glad you're pointing out that the media and cultural messages we get about African Americans as a community often gloss over very important ways that we're all more alike than different. It helps us to really look closely at why our American culture wants us to believe certain things about the beliefs or behaviors of African Americans that run counter to the actual lived lives of Afircan Americans and other racial/ethnic groups that so often get caught up misleadingly in the 'obesity epidemic' blather.

jlm, Thanks. I'm glad someone else can see this.

I have to agree with jlm on this. And as far as Debra pointing out the hiphop model Buffie as fat or obese, not only was it appalling and insulting but just plain silly.

In her rush to impart her "concern" about the health of black women (not) she's part of the problem for ALL women when it comes to health and body image. She rushed to make assumptions about a model (who is not fat) and then tried to make correlations based on her faulty assumptions about this woman with what black men want and what black women are supposedly doing to make themselves more attractive to their men or some other nonsense.

I believe it's what most people call a strawman argument.

I saw the article in Salon and was astonished to find it published there. The whole logic was very weird and fallacious. First of all, she cites "Buffi the Body" as this horribly dangerous role model that is encouraging black women to gain weight... But "Buffi" is not "obese" by any medical standards; in fact, she is a slender, small-wasted woman who happens to have relatively large buttocks. And frankly, although she has an unusual fat distribution pattern, she looks.... awesome (at least according to this straight, white lady)! Regarding the reports of rising diagnoses of diabetes and high blood pressure among African-Americans and other minority groups, I would like to see more outrage about the correlation between poverty and lousy nutritiion.